Inception ** SPOILER THREAD ** |
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McCordRm
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Topic: Inception ** SPOILER THREAD **Posted: Jul-21-10 at 8:57pm |
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There, now we can discuss that ending.
Here's my take: He's in a dream. But it's a dream of his own creation. I think he gave up on any hope of returning home to see his kids at some point. Whether from guilt, the law, or a combination of the two. Since he couldn't take it anymore, he escaped into the dream world, far down where he knew that his real-life body would be dead before he ever had to deal with waking up. However, having already lived in the dream world with his wife and discovering that knowing it's a dream ruins any chance of taking it seriously, he needed to create an Idea so strong it could enthrall even him. So the elaborate plan goes as such: The one thing he wants more than anything else is to live with his children again. Chasing that idea alone couldn't fool him. So the Maze is set to where he's given a rare opportunity, by someone powerful enough to accomplish the feat, to clear his name and return home. To take advantage of this, he must perform an almost impossible mission; a mission so dangerous that he won't have time to wonder at the difference between the real world and that world. A danger so terrifying (getting killed and ending up spending an eternity in limbo) that he can only focus on the task at hand. And when he completes the mission, and earns his prize, he's so relieved he doesn't pause for a moment. He accepts his reward whole-heartily. He doesn't even look back to watch the spinner. _______________________________________ Now, here's how I pieced that together. 1. He's brilliant. He knows all the tricks and he understands the human psyche; especially his own. 2. His subconscious continues to try and warn him during the film. Doing this could be viewed as a Leap Of Faith on his part- trusting in his own ability to fool even himself and escape the pain. At least twice during the film, important Projections told him just that: Take a Leap of Faith. 3. He calls in "specialists" of their fields... yet he's always the one with the answers. This further points at everyone being his Projections. 4. The difficulties he faces in the film are over-the-top. Running into an alley that continues to narrow until he only just squeeze through; a target that's been trained against his skill-set with armed guards suddenly appearing to increase the difficulty at just the right moment; and lastly, when all else fails, throw in a crazed, vengeful wife to interfere. 5. When he finally gets back to his kids... they look EXACTLY like he remembered them. Kids noticebly age very quickly. He wouldn't have stepped into the exact same scene had it been the real world. But as seen above, by that time he was so grateful at being alive and making it back, he didn't stop to question. |
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Jul-22-10 at 3:26pm |
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Nice analysis! Just a couple of thoughts on things I need to ponder a bit more:
The top was his wife's... you never see him with one of his own. Did she ever exist? His kids? They say he was lost in limbo for some time before he "got out" But then if you discard any of it as real then the story if pointless so <shrug> we will assume that she and the kids are "real" but then why doesn't he have a touchstone of his own? The old man in the beginning and the end has still got my brain twisted in knots. I need to see it again LOL I have a feeling this will be one I will see a few times before I am satisfied I have a grasp on it. |
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Aiko Jade
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McCordRm
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Posted: Jul-22-10 at 5:18pm |
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The old man? You mean Saito (Ken Watanabe)?
When he died, he dropped down to what I can only assume is the deepest level of sleep. Therefore, by the time Cobb (Dicaprio) finds and gets to him many, many decades have past for Saito. That's why he's old as hell. To Cobb, it may have taken him a month of his time to get to Saito's plane of existence, and in the month Saito continued to age about 50 years, for example. Once on Saito's plane, it could have taken Cobb only a day to reach the now 90-year old Saito. As for Cobb's totem... I don't know. I wondered the same thing and came up with: if he were going to create a reality for himself that he never planned to return from, he wouldn't WANT a totem. Then, inside the dream world, he picks up a dream-totem. It could, therefore, more completely tie him to that reality and keeping him from waking up. Edited by McCordRm - Jul-22-10 at 5:22pm |
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Jul-23-10 at 1:35am |
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I got the aged Saito thing but he was there in the beginning and at the end. Was it just flashback after his first appearance and we see the rest of it at the end? Going Monday to see it in IMAX this time. Loved the folding city so this should be fun.
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Aiko Jade
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McCordRm
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Posted: Jul-23-10 at 4:19am |
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Ah... it's one of those, "Let's get back to where we were" things. The movie begins at near the end of the
story, then flashes back to play catch-up. OH! I forgot to write the freakin title of the movie. It's called Inception, and more than once Cobb comments that he's done it before. SO, the basis of my analysis was that the whole movie was about him performing an elaborate Inception on himself. Edited by McCordRm - Jul-23-10 at 4:22am |
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Ebon-WE
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Posted: Jul-23-10 at 5:51am |
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He dropped the totem in the bathroom scene. Was the rest a dream from there?
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Innuender's Game
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McCordRm
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Posted: Jul-23-10 at 5:38pm |
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? He dropped it on the floor when Saito walked in... but then he picked it back up.
Still, it was his wife's Top. I never saw him use any other item. Edited by McCordRm - Jul-23-10 at 5:39pm |
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Ebon-WE
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 2:07am |
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I'm diggin' this thread.
I guess I should have been a little more specific. Just wanted to toss this out there. Cobb was testing out that drug in the basement. When he was supposed to awaken, he couldn't shake the images of his wife. So he whipped it out (his totem). But he never got a chance to spin it. He was interrupted by Saito. If it spun forever, he was in a dream. If it rattled, and fell, he was in reality. Right? I was figuring that once he tried the drug, he was out. Didn't see the top spin in that scene, and the top doesn't fall at the end? Dream. Cobb had, at one point in the film stated the importance of having a totem particular to your being. He adopted the top as his totem once his waifu died (what did he use as a totem prior? or was this the conception of it? I don't remember). And later we found the importance of the weight and such of the top. I like ideas thrown in this thread! If his wife was fictitious, then the top doesn't matter. The great thing about this movie is that it can be so widely interpreted. I need to see it again after reading through the different p.o.v's Edited by Ebon-WE - Jul-24-10 at 2:11am |
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Innuender's Game
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Anweir
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 12:22pm |
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I have to wonder how the totems work if it's your subconscious that's forming the dream. After all, you know what the totem is supposed to be like. Hence, so does your subconscious. I think the totems would only work when you are in someone else's dream.
My take: Mol (his wife) was right when she jumped. They were still in a dream - his initial dream with his wife. Hence, the top is useless to him as a totem - it will do whatever his subconscious needs it to do, spin or fall. He couldn't deal with her absence and created the rest as outlined by McCordRm in the first post |
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 4:05pm |
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BUT did the top fall in the end? They did that abrupt "lights out" as it was spinning but it had wobbled a bit and looked like it Might fall.
The girl's totem... you purposely do not see it clearly but from what little you do see it looked like a chess piece bishop. Cobb's piece, his wife's top, spun to let him know if he was still in a dream but you never see the other people's totems, just the girl. What would hers do if she were to use it to determine where she was. |
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Aiko Jade
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 4:10pm |
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Definately going back Monday for the IMAX but mainly cause I will be sitting there watching for all the little things I missed. I am with you Ebon, love the P.O.Vs here. Oh yeah Hy, I assumed the totem was a deeper meaning sort of thing that would sort of act like the "falling" trigger. Something that you invest spirit in beyond what your brain would create for the dream. I think you interpretation fits best with what I am getting from it. LOL wait til I get back from it Monday = )
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Aiko Jade
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thune
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 5:23pm |
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really enjoyed it only prblem it was 90% full and I was to close
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Logain
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 5:44pm |
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old people know the regrets of children better than most, and they keep the picture of thier children (no matter thier age) as them very young. Saito was there at the begining and the end. Young then old. I figgure Cobb may have been Saito's image of himself
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McCordRm
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Posted: Jul-24-10 at 5:54pm |
My problem with that is this: The pieces shown to you later where they clearly reach old age in the dreamworld. When she jumps, they're young again. Granted, he if they were deep enough when they got old, they could have theoretically just woken up a level or two. SO, it does make you wonder how she could have been so convinced she was still dreaming. Did the totem tell her? |
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Burt
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Posted: Jul-25-10 at 9:53pm |
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I saw this over the weekend... I feel like Inception and the Matrix both took half of the Neuromancer dynamic. The Matrix is obvious (loner computer hacker, vast cyber network, all that BS). Inception had:
- a dead lover that haunts the protagonist throughout - main character is being held hostage to redeem himself or make him whole - it's all premised on shadowy/vague international corporate politics - important shots on the beach with his wife - a character in the team that specializes in deception That's really my only observation. Real good flick |
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Alx
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Posted: Jul-26-10 at 2:10pm |
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I was convinced that the dream world was his once they found that the mind had previous training against people in dreams. Seemed more far-fetched that some random billionaire had the training, rather than that they were in his own mind. The totem does wobble at the end. Leaves much room for interpretation.
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Jul-26-10 at 7:20pm |
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He spins the top and walks away not caring if it falls or not. After a second viewing I am pretty hot on the idea that he is still lost in the dream and that all of the prompting along the way is a number of attempts made by his own subconscious to tell him that he IS still dreaming. All of the people he has on his team are great representations of aspects of his own psyche.
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Aiko Jade
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thune
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Posted: Jul-26-10 at 9:49pm |
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I feel he escaped in the "dream".He never looks at his childrens faces in life. He spins the top and looks at them. it starts to falter as he walks away IMHO
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Handaar
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Posted: Jul-27-10 at 6:17pm |
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Yeah.. pretty thin, but he made a BIG deal about not seeing the faces of his kids. A point for escaping.. but then again his kids were in the same place, SAME CLOTHES.. uh.. point against escape.
The top when it would just spin before was dead on straight, no wobble and it wobbles.. a think a weaker point that he got out, but then again we never actually saw it fall.. a point against..
So back to "I have no damn clue!" 8)
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Immortals.. they fail my King's test. And a man who fancies himself a god feels a very human chill crawl up his spine.
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Iss Hogai
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Posted: Aug-09-10 at 12:17pm |
Actually Aiko, if you remember the one guys shows the girl his "Loaded Die" totem and he doesn't let her touch it, saying something to the effect of "I'm the only one who knows the weight and feel of it." Later Ariadne refuses to let Cobb touch hers and he mentions she is learning.
What caught my attention was the use of the name Ariadne. Ariadne in Greek Mythology was the one that gave Theseus the ball of twine to lead him back out of the labyrinth afte killing the Minotaur. Yet another subconscious manifestation of trying to escape?
Just saw this for the first time this weekend as part of an anniversary night out.
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Aiko Jade
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Posted: Aug-09-10 at 3:01pm |
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Hmmmm you are right Master Hogai - you do see Arthur's die and I assume that it would come up something besides what a "loaded" die would if he were still in the dream but what action would the bishop have? Yeah he mentioned weight and feel but your own perception is what you are trying to verify.... hmmmm
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Aiko Jade
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McCordRm
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Posted: Aug-09-10 at 7:50pm |
WOW... I'm pretty freakin' good at catching Mythology references and completely missed that one. Aces, bud. I'm impressed. |
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Iss Hogai
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Posted: Aug-09-10 at 10:48pm |
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To be perfectly honest, the name tickled the back of my mind during the movie and I had to look it up to see why. Seemed maybe the fact that when they were talking about mazes at least a couple of times they mentioned Labyrinths.
Makes me wonder if any of the other names have any significance. Myles keeps making me think of the line of poetry used in the Charles Bronson Movie Telefon (yeah, I'm showing my age again). The line of poetry was, "And miles to go before you sleep." Some how that line of poetry keeps nagging me about this movie.
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Iss Hogai
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Posted: Aug-09-10 at 10:51pm |
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Aiko, like you I thought she was making a gold colored bishop also but I thought I saw a red ball at the base, maybe to let it roll a set distance?
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