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Topic ClosedHigh End Weapon Enchants Testing

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Nightshroud View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: High End Weapon Enchants Testing
    Posted: Jun-05-05 at 3:41pm

On the Test realm, I had my 1.6 second fast sword and my 3.5 second slow Polearm enchanted with each of the enchants.  Then I ground on level 48ish elite trolls in Hinterlands.  I used Procwatch to count procs and a lot of Mekaraa to keep my health up while I fought.  Thanks everyone who lent materials and time!

NOTE:  I'm still gathering data and doing analysis.  I don't recommend choosing an enchantment guided by what you see here...yet.

Crusader
=======
3.5 second.  508 hits 34 procs
->1.15 ppm
1.6 second.  1559 hits 46 procs
->1.10 ppm

Crusader immediately heals you for 115 to 190 (range maybe slightly wider...and it sometimes crit heals for 150% of normal) and grants a +100 Strength buff for 15 seconds.  If Crusader procs again during a previous 15 second buff, you get healed and the timer is set back up to 15 seconds.

Crusader has a 1.1 proc per minute average.  I say average because it can proc on two hits in a row or not proc at all for a a few minutes.  Because one proc can overlap with another, consider that you'll have +100 Strength roughly 1/4 of the time.

Since Crusader is "procs per minute" rather than some fixed percent chance per hit, it will proc just as frequently with a fast weapon as it will with a slow weapon.  However, it is still FAR better to put this on a slow weapon if your class has any kind of special attacks based on damage range of your weapon.  A 3.0 speed weapon gains higher damage range TWICE as fast as a 1.5 speed weapon does from Attack Power bonuses...and Strength feeds into Attack Power for melee.  Keep in mind that Rogues and Hunters only get 1 Attack Power for every +Strength, but everyone else gets 2 melee Attack Power for each +Strength.

Fiery Weapon
==========
1.6 second.  1053 hits 192 procs
->6.83 ppm
3.5 second.  420 hits 164 procs
->6.69 ppm

Fiery Weapon simply hits your target for 40 fire damage when it procs.  Sometimes it crits for 60 fire damage.  Do not confuse "Fiery Weapon" with the EVIL and VILE and WICKED "Fiery Enchantment" which is applied from a quest object from the badlands.  Make sure that if you pay for an enchant with "fiery" in it that it says "Weapon!"

Fiery Weapon has a rate of about 6.8 procs per minute.  Again, weapon speed doesn't matter.  It has the same effect on a fast weapon or a slow weapon.  However, you should prefer to put this on a weapon for which other enchants aren't a heck of a lot better.

Not counting the crits, Fiery Weapon will do 4.53 DPS fire damage on average.

Icy Chill
======
1.6 second.  395 hits 14 procs
->1.3 ppm

Icy Chill puts a debuff on your target that reduces movement "TO 70%" and attack speed "BY 20%"...for 5 seconds...about once a minute average.  As you can see in the testing data above, I was getting so few procs that I gave up early so the 1.3 procs per minute is VERY likely to be off by a fair margin.

Icy Chill is just HORRIBLE.  Something attacking you at 80% of normal speed for five seconds is completely *yawn*.  Moving at 70% speed for 5 seconds is hardly what I'd call slow, having played a Frost Mage.  Plus, the window of slowness is so small that you'll never catch someone or escape from someone because of it.  The only thing going for this enchant is that it's pur-ty.

Life Stealing
=========
3.5 second.  450 hits.  121 procs.
-> 4.61 ppm OR 27% chance per hit


Life Stealing takes 30 hps from your target and gives them to you.  It can proc off of Seal of Command, and probably other procs.  ...wonder if it can proc off of Rogue poisons...hrm.


I wasn't able to test Life Stealing on the Test server, so I don't have data on a fast weapon.  Either someone can donate an enchant on Alleria for my fast weapon, or put one on their own fast weapon and let me guide you on testing procedure, or we can wait until Test is back up.  I have Life Stealing on my slow weapon on Alleria, so I'll keep an eye on it and improve the sample size greatly in the near future.





--------------original thread starter below---------------------

I've been meaning to test out high-end weapon enchants eventually.  Today someone requested this investigation and I'm happy to deliver.

The goal is to provide the guild with precise details on how these enchants work...and how well they work with what weapons.  These are expensive enchants and we want people to get the most out of them.

To this end, I will copy Alastriona to the test server.  I'll also need Enchanters with the right recipes to copy themselves so they can enchant both a fast and a slow weapon of mine with each enchantment in turn.  I believe you can copy your character a few times to the test server, so you'll only need to be carrying components for one enchant.

I would ask that any guildies help by lending the enchanters who assist me the components while they do the character copy.

Here are the enchantments and components I plan to test:

Lifestealing (Zia)
-----------
Large Brilliant Shard (6), <6 lent by Mekara>
Essence of Undeath (6), <I have 7 already>
Living Essence (6) <I have 4 already.> <1 lent by Winterhawk>

Crusader (Mekara, Illithorn)
--------
Large Brilliant Shard (4), <4 lent by Mekara>
Righteous Orb (2) <I have 1 already.> <2 lent by Mekara>

Unholy Weapon
---------------
Large Brilliant Shard (4), <3 lent by Amerylla><1 lent by Mekara>
Essence of Undeath (4) <4 lent by Winterhawk>

Icy Chill (Zia, Mekara, Skimbleshank) 
--------
Small Brilliant Shard (4), <4 lent by Mekara>
Essence of Water, <I have this already.>
Essence of Air, <1 lent by Winterhawk> <1 lent by Mekara>
Icecap <I have this already>

Fiery Weapon (Mekara)
-------------
Small Radiant Shard (4), <1 lent by Mekara> <4 lent by Amerylla>
Essence of Fire <1 lent by Mekara>



Total Needed
-------------
10 Essence of Undeath (have 15)
1 Essence of Fire (have 1)
6 Living Essence (have 6)
1 Essence of Air (have 2)
1 Essence of Water (have 1)

1 Icecap (have 1)
2 Righteous Orbs (have 3)

4 Small Radiant Shard (have 5)
4 Small Brilliant Shard (have 4)
14 Large Brilliant Shard (have 14)




Edited by Alastriona
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-05-05 at 5:08pm
Thanks Alastriona.

Remember everyone that you don't loose anything by lending the component to the enchanter so that when they copy their character over to test they have the goods to give Alastriona the enchant for testing. After the character copy is done, you can get your component back of course.

/obvious
This post only underscores the solidity of my bulk like a tarpaulin draped over a concrete pylon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-05-05 at 5:51pm
Thanks Baka.  Good to have that clear for people.

My plan is thus:

1)  Load up the components for ALL the enchants listed above on Alastriona.
2)  Copy Alastriona to Test.
3)  Meanwhile, back on Alleria, hand all the components to Mekara.
4)  Mekara will then copy herself to Test.
5)  Meanwhile, back on Alleria, we give components back to all lenders.
6)  On Test, we'll have enough components to do all the enchants TWICE.

I need to do each one on my fast sword and my slow polearm.  This has two advantages.  For one, I can find out if stuff is procs per minute or just a fixed chance on it.  For two, I can crossreference either style between the two weapons.  If the numerical results match then I know my testing is accurate.  If they don't, I look for a flaw in my testing procedure until they do match.

I'm looking to start on this today.  Test realm may close for a while Tuesday morning.


Edited by Alastriona
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-05-05 at 7:46pm
test realm may close for a few weeks tuesday morning:)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-05-05 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Dreon

test realm may close for a few weeks tuesday morning:)


That's why I'm rushing to get this done tonight and tomorrow.  :P

By the way, all components have been lent.  Thanks much to you folks who did!  Have them back to you shortly.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-06-05 at 8:15am
I'm very interested to see the numbers that you come up with.  At some point I'll have a melee class at a high enough level to benifit from this. :)

-Doki
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-06-05 at 12:46pm

Awesome Idea, and look forward to the rest of the results as it's almost time to pick and chose which one's to use, and which one's to ignore.

Thanks a ton

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-07-05 at 11:56am
Great Alas, thanks for running this test!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-07-05 at 12:12pm
I wasn't able to test Lifestealing before the Test server went down.  Looking to put this on my real server slow weapon tonight.  Common wisdom is that this is a bad idea.  My policy with bad ideas is to try them out and see what happens. >D

At any rate, as the disclaimer in the first post says...don't use this thread to make your decisions...yet.

Except that I recommend avoiding Icy Chill because it totally sucks unless you realize you're paying just for the cool glow.  Unholy Weapon also sounds like it's awful except for the cool animation.  -15 damage some of the time is insignificant when high-end mobs hit for hundreds and hundreds.  AND both Icy Chill and Unholy take a debuff slot unworthy of MC debuff slots.  If you put them on your weapon, expect to be asked not to use that weapon in Molten Core.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-07-05 at 2:40pm
At last, I can post myself!

Your data seems to pretty clearly confirm the theory that procs are calculated on a per-minute basis rather than a per-swing basis.  The question then becomes how that calculation is done.  Two possibilities occur to me immediately:

1.  The game reverse-calculates a per-swing proc rate based on your weapon's speed, then ties the proc into swings of your weapon with thew newly-calculated chance to proc.

2.  The game tracks the proc rate as a % chance per second and does the proc calculation once per second.  This way, a 10/min rate would be a 16.6% chance per second of a proc.  The randomizer would just do a roll each second to determine whether or not a proc happens, as long as attack is on and the target is in melee range.  This would NOT be tied to weapon swings, so it would be entirely possible for a proc to appear to follow a miss in the combat log.

I'm almost inclined to think the second case might be right, because I feel like I've seen procs hit after a miss.

A related puzzle is that I KNOW I've seen two poison procs happen simultaneously when I only have one weapon poisoned.  If procs and poisons work the same way, that might indicate that my second theory is correct... I'd be seeing procs on two consecutive seconds that show up in the combat log simultaneously because of prior activity in the first second.  Of course, that gets into how the combat log prioritizes reporting of various actions, which is a whole different kettle of fish.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-09-05 at 1:48pm

Any chance you could give us some insight into how Omen of Clarity procs for druids?  This is a buff we cast on ourselves that allows us to process a free nuke or heal.  I'd love to find out if the weapon I'm using plays into this ability.

Faythe

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun-09-05 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Faythe

Any chance you could give us some insight into how Omen of Clarity procs for druids?  This is a buff we cast on ourselves that allows us to process a free nuke or heal.  I'd love to find out if the weapon I'm using plays into this ability.

Faythe



Um, not really.  I don't have a Druid nor do I plan to have one anytime soon.  ...but, for only $19.95 YOU TOO can learn how to figure this stuff out!

Just grab ProcWatch from your favorite add-ons site.  But me in-game if you have trouble figuring it out.  Just remember to watch your combat log and count hits and procs for a couple times to make sure ProcWatch is counting correctly.  Make sure it still works if you proc on the first hit in a fight, etc.  Don't pay attention to it's "procs per minute" calculation, it does it in a bad way.  Just take the number of hits and the number of procs and post'm here.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul-22-05 at 6:22pm
/bump

wondering whats best for a slow not high end 3.8 axe like Executioner's Cleaver

fiery or +5? or +7 ..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul-23-05 at 12:32am
Originally posted by Dreon

/bump

wondering whats best for a slow not high end 3.8 axe like Executioner's Cleaver

fiery or +5? or +7 ..


Well, obviously +7 is better than +5. :P

Fiery will add four and a half fire DPS (cuts through armor) which is nice.   +7 would add  1.84  physical DPS to a 3.8 speed axe.  Both of these are just counting swings, of course.  Any instant attacks you have will benefit from the +7 but not from Fiery.

I consider Fiery the best melee enchant.  *shrug*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr-26-06 at 7:33am

Nightshroud, thank you for the information on the enchants! I noticed that you didn't have the chance to test lifestealing on a fast weapon, so the following acticle might be useful which tests lifestealing on a 1.50 speed dagger:

http://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/lifestealing/

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr-26-06 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Roger

Nightshroud, thank you for the information on the enchants! I noticed that you didn't have the chance to test lifestealing on a fast weapon, so the following acticle might be useful which tests lifestealing on a 1.50 speed dagger:

http://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/lifestealing/



Thanks for the pointer, Roger.  I'm rusty on this sort of thing so I may be way off, but...

1.5sec dagger
578 hits
64 procs

(1.5*578)/60 = 14.45 minutes
64/14.45 = 4.43 procs per minute

---

2.1sec mace
740 hits
133 procs
(2.1*740)/60 = 25.9 minutes
133/25.9 = 5.14 procs per minute

The number minutes spent fighting on your page is higher than the time I used here to determine procs per minute.  Mine is idealized...only taking into account seconds spent making successful hits (and therefore a chance to proc).

I found with the other enchants that the larger the sample time, the closer the procs per minute for fast and slow weapons converge on one number.  For lifestealing, it's probably somewhere between 5.14 and 4.43 procs per minute.  Still a lot of spread, so more hits on the order of several thousand each weapon help to narrow that down.  I got something in this general range too...but didn't test it as much as you did.

Your observations about scaling % chance per hit based on weapon speed are spot on.  The idealized procs per minute number is the constant involved that varies by enchant.  I should hop on Test Realm and do this testing again.

Thanks for dropping by,
Nightshroud

P.S. - I can't read Members Only forum anymore, in case folks have written me anything there.
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